It is currently Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:04 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

HS2

Sponsor

Sponsor
 

Author Message
 Post subject: HS2
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:08 pm
Posts: 13013
Location: West Midlands
I was wondering what are people's thoughts on HS2 on here? The likes of the TPA often gnash their teeth in fury at HS2 but lately those
on the left are starting to voice their opposistion

_________________
Don't give me the Star Trek crap. it's too early in the morning.

Dave Lister, philosopher.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: HS2
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:04 pm
Posts: 17480
The original point still stands; how much will it cost to patch up an overcapacity Victorian railway line for the next two hundred years?

The figures are amortised capital cost spread over decades. And whatsmore if you rely on accountants to grant you permission to execute great leap forwards in civil engineering little would ever get done.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: HS2
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:07 am
Posts: 16355
Location: Brigadoon
Apologies for the thread bump but the hybrid HS2 bill passed the final stage of the vote in the Lord's today and is due to go for Royal Assent on 7th February. Shovels in the ground within weeks it would seem.

_________________
"They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say...let 'em crash."
- "Counter Point", Airplane! (1980)

Things can only get better.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: HS2
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:33 pm
Posts: 22838
Location: South Wales
I wonder if Hard Brexit will do for the stage 2 though.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: HS2
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:33 pm
Posts: 22838
Location: South Wales
Littlejohn's brain wrote:
I was wondering what are people's thoughts on HS2 on here? The likes of the TPA often gnash their teeth in fury at HS2 but lately those
on the left are starting to voice their opposistion


There wasn't really any left opposition. Ed Balls was acting "sceptical" to play Gilligan etc.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: HS2
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:10 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:23 pm
Posts: 16714
Location: Liverpool
I remember that everyone, even on the right, was very pro-HS2, right until they realised it'd be going through some nice gardens in the south east.

_________________
"It is not enough to succeed. Others must fail." - Gore Vidal.

"I proved that you're wrong. And if you're wrong, I'm right." - Aaron Eckhart.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: HS2
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:02 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:12 pm
Posts: 1464
Location: Loughborough
I should imagine by now we have reached critical mass, in that too much money has been spent on it, for it not to go ahead


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: HS2
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:03 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:01 pm
Posts: 4261
Location: Handforth, Cheshire, just half a mile across the border with fantastic Greater Manchester
Cant make my mind up about it TBH. On the positive side, it will relieve capacity on the West Coast Main Line, putting all the fast traffic from London to Manchester/Leeds onto HS2 will free up the existing routes and allow more semi-fasts and stoppers to use them.

On the other hand, I cant help but get the feeling that it is something of a vanity project, and that the money could be spent on improving local services and reopening some of the lines which were closed under Beeching. Also, I suspect the fares on HS2 will be expensive and most of its users will be business people. With the growth in technology, Skype etc, there could be less need to travel up and down the country for business meetings by the time it is open.

I am a don't know on this

_________________
Were going to hell in a handcart, you couldn't make it up!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: HS2
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:47 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:07 am
Posts: 16355
Location: Brigadoon
I get your point on technology but there will always be a need for people to travel up and down the country, and nobody has yet worked out a way of emailing a shipping container.

The way I think of it is like this. The French HSL network killed off internal air travel, and decimated air travel from Paris to Brussels. If the service was more frequent (and it will be in the future), the same will be true of London to either of those two. And a new main line from London to the north is badly needed, and has been for the last 40 years. The extra cost to make it high speed is actually minimal, and in many ways cuts down on costs as it can go over rather than through hills etc. So for a little bit more money you potentially make a huge amount of savings on pollution and emissions.

As for the impact on Stage 2, it could. But it may be cheaper to keep them on and build it, with a lot of nice big employment opportunities to keep the figures down if Brexit goes properly tits up. Think autobahns.

_________________
"They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say...let 'em crash."
- "Counter Point", Airplane! (1980)

Things can only get better.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: HS2
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:33 pm
Posts: 22838
Location: South Wales
mr angry manchester wrote:
Cant make my mind up about it TBH. On the positive side, it will relieve capacity on the West Coast Main Line, putting all the fast traffic from London to Manchester/Leeds onto HS2 will free up the existing routes and allow more semi-fasts and stoppers to use them.

On the other hand, I cant help but get the feeling that it is something of a vanity project, and that the money could be spent on improving local services and reopening some of the lines which were closed under Beeching. Also, I suspect the fares on HS2 will be expensive and most of its users will be business people. With the growth in technology, Skype etc, there could be less need to travel up and down the country for business meetings by the time it is open.

I am a don't know on this


Most of the figures you see for reopening lines closed by Beeching have been produced by the scheme's promoters. Borders Rail has been a success in terms of numbers, but that was a link into a big city from an area with no railway lines at all, with nothing much in the way, which isn't true of most proposals.

There's a lot already being done to improve existing lines. The latest 5 year Network Rail period has £38.4bn of work in it, before a spade goes into the ground for HS2. A lot of that will be Crossrail, but even so it's pretty impressive. There are currently 4,000 carriages/engines on order.

Lots of the existing work is over budget and behind schedule, so it's not really feeding through yet.

HS2 relieves the ECML as well, plus the slow "Cross Country" line from Birmingham to Leeds etc. Beyond that, it should be a catalyst for other improvements. If you can get from eg Crewe to London in under an hour, then there's more of a case for improving the journeys into Crewe. So it's not really a zero sum game in terms of HS2 being built and not other stuff.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Fatal: ./cache/ is NOT writable.