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Re: Scottish independence

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:50 pm 
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The Red Arrow wrote:
http://www.redmolotov.com/catalogue/tshirts/all/hold-nose-vote-labour-tshirt/whitetshirt.html


Indeed. But the truth is that frankly, I'm sick to the back teeth of people endlessly whining that the Labour party in its current form isn't the Labour party that in their idealist fantasy world they would like to vote for. More galling still is that the same people are too often those who, either due to having left the Labour party some years ago in a fit of principled pique, or to having never been a member of the party at all, are in practical terms in no position whatsoever actively to shape the sort of Labour party or the sort of policies that they say they would like to have and to vote for, preferring instead to snipe from the sidelines.

Don't they realise the urgency of the situation? The immediate, crushing imperative to vote the current government out at all costs? The consequences of failing to do so, not least for the most poorly off and vulnerable in our society who are depending on a new Labour government in May? The sheer, fucking nightmarish prospect of another 5 years of Cameron, Duncan Smith, and the rest of this shower of vicious cunts? Another FIVE years, guys. Five years. Marduk on a spacehopper.....

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:18 pm 
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Abernathy I agree with every word you say.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:33 pm 
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As do I. In fact it's a speech I've made to Party meetings - politics is the art of the possible, and so are parties.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:47 pm 
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Malcolm Armsteen wrote:
As do I. In fact it's a speech I've made to Party meetings - politics is the art of the possible, and so are parties.



Seen.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:57 pm 
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Back to the poll what makes this one so alarming is that it tells us which seats Labour will lose. What therefore can Scottish Labour do in order to halt this?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 12:27 am 
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I'm thinking that Scottish Labour needs (urgently) to begin to develop the policy offer, and it needs to be transparently clear. We need to meet the SNP head on. Essentially, we need to evict the SNP from their squat in the tenement of Labour's progressive agenda. These bastards can't deliver for Scotland. Particularly in the light of Scotland having rejected the notion of independence by a clear margin of 10%. Labour is the best option for Scots, not the fucking Braveheart and shortbread bollocks.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 12:50 am 
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I think Scottish Labour should develop two clear messages

1. A vote for the SNP is a vote for a Tory government why elect the SNPp to act as kingmakers when you can elect Labour to form a government.

2. The SNP were willing to gamble Scotland's future on the price of oil. With the price of oil falling so dramatically can you trust them to stand up for Scotland in Westminster.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 1:14 am 
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Abernathy wrote:
Don't they realise the urgency of the situation? The immediate, crushing imperative...


Borrowed with grace.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 1:51 am 
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I'm afraid you've got it all wrong. It's much more important that no-one who ever worked in the New Labour Project (you know, the one that gave us 13 years of a Labour government) is allowed in a position of authority ever again.

We may be in opposition, the country may be wrecked, the people we supposedly represent driven to destitution and penury, but our principles will be pure...

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 2:05 am 
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Malcolm Armsteen wrote:
I'm afraid you've got it all wrong. It's much more important that no-one who ever worked in the New Labour Project (you know, the one that gave us 13 years of a Labour government) is allowed in a position of authority ever again.

We may be in opposition, the country may be wrecked, the people we supposedly represent driven to destitution and penury, but our principles will be pure...


Puritanical socialism is always the best.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 3:11 pm 
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We've heard about Ed M's co-called 35% strategy for winning GE2015 i.e. that once Labour achieve a share of the vote of at least 35% they are almost certain of an outright victory. It seems to me that Scottish Labour should adopt a more literal approach - if, somehow, they can scrap their way up to around 35% north of the border, that *should' just about be enough to hold onto a lion's share of their existing 41 seats.

The bigger problem for Scottish Labour will be the 2016 Holyrood vote.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:56 pm 
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A few scenarios;

* Scotland with a chance of being in the EU.
* Scotland with no chance of being in the EU but being in the UK.
* Loathsome Tories canvassing for a "yes" vote.
* ]K/Jez having little traction.
* May in danger of losing the Union.
* Economic realists splitting from the NFSE gaggle.
* Economic realists siding with the IRanAway plastics.

All things considered, Glasgow could be a key battleground with Embra then on a knife-edge.

In other news, my renewal papers from the EC arrived on the doormat today. I think that I already know which way I am inclined come next autumn.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:51 am 
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Ruth Davison is going to be the most prominent supporter of the union. Her argument will be to stick with a project she was telling everyone would be a total disaster last June. And then there's Jez ready to woo back Labour switchers: "If you vote for independence its not just Brexit you'll avoid but me as the leader of your party."


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:05 am 
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One of those topics that there are two sides to, to me. I can see where the Scots are coming from in wanting it, the possibility of remaining in the EU and breaking away from the Tory controlled UK are positives, on the down side, the economy, seems to be tied in with oil which fluctuates, and some of the wish for independence is based on sentiment.

For the rest of the UK, a big downer would be that it would remove, how many seats? is it 50? at a stroke, which are 99% anti Tory, so this would virtually condemn us to permanent Tory rule for the foreseeable.

Half of me would support the North of England breaking away and joining Scotland if it became independent.

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