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John McDonnell

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 Post subject: John McDonnell
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 2:06 pm 
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I've been impressed by McDonnell, in a way I haven't by Jeremy Corbyn. I didn't see his speech on the EU, but from the BBC account I should try to.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-e ... ws_central

This is what we need - more of it, please!

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 Post subject: Re: John McDonnell
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 2:25 pm 
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The BBC go on to prove his point perfectly.

Quote:
BBC assistant political editor Norman Smith said his comments were likely to be seized on by Leave campaigners who have warned of the impact of EU migration on public services.

Former work and pensions secretary Iain Duncan Smith, a Vote Leave campaigner, has said the EU is a "force for social injustice" and benefits the "haves" over the "have nots".

He said "uncontrolled migration" from the EU drove down wages, undercutting UK workers, and increased the cost of living which, he said, hit the poorest hardest.

There was an increasing divide between "people who benefit from the immigration of cheap nannies and baristas and labourers - and people who can't find work because of uncontrolled immigration", he said.

Meanwhile, Labour's Frank Field has warned his party risks losing "a swathe" of traditional supporters to UKIP by campaigning to remain in the EU and failing to address their concerns over immigration.

The Birkenhead MP, who was welfare reform minister in Tony Blair's first government, suggested the referendum could turn out to be "the second-longest suicide note in Labour's history" - behind the manifesto that preceded its 1983 general election drubbing.


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 Post subject: Re: John McDonnell
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 3:02 pm 
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Concerns among some voters about immigration has always been the large grey quadruped in the room that Labour has ignored. This is possibly down to Labour being accused of encouraging the influx. Whether you agree with this opinion or not is immaterial, it's ingrained in a lot of voters' psyche, these include many natural Labour supporters who have seen their neighbourhoods transformed and having to fight for jobs with low wages.

Some of these changes are of course over blown by the right wing press but people aren't stupid, they have eyes to see and in a generation their townscapes have changed and local, unskilled workers struggle to compete with people who are prepared to work for less money.

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 Post subject: Re: John McDonnell
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 4:20 pm 
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The point has to be made to those 'concerned' people. If an immigrant with little or no English, no skills and no background in the country can come and take your job you need to have a good, hard look at yourself.

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 Post subject: Re: John McDonnell
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 4:29 pm 
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That's what is annoyingly described these days as a 'Big Ask'.

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 Post subject: Re: John McDonnell
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 4:30 pm 
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Yet when Hilary Benn ask it he gets criticised, by some on here...
Apparently having skills is 'Blairite'.

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 Post subject: Re: John McDonnell
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 6:23 pm 
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Malcolm Armsteen wrote:
I've been impressed by McDonnell, in a way I haven't by Jeremy Corbyn. I didn't see his speech on the EU, but from the BBC account I should try to.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-e ... ws_central

This is what we need - more of it, please!


Cameron and Osborne's apocalyptic hyperbole is the weak link in this campaign. Today Cameron warned that the head of IS wanted Brexit. McDonnell is not party political point scoring by noting the Tory Party on both sides is looking absurd.


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 Post subject: Re: John McDonnell
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 4:20 pm 
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Interesting. I'm drawn to this idea, despite the Swiss binning it.

John McDonnell: Labour taking a close look at universal basic income

Shadow chancellor says the concept of an unconditional payment to all could prepare country for robotisation of the workforce

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ass-report


Of course, this will get kippers foaming at the mouth with the usual argument.

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 Post subject: Re: John McDonnell
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 4:27 pm 
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I believe that Gordon Brown and then Gideon looked at this idea. Rather like Universal Credit it makes perfectly good sense if a) you can make it work, and b) if the voters will accept it, given that it removes all possibility of working on the black economy, tax dodging and so forth. Expect a lot of arguments about 'liberty'.

Personally I doubt that HMRC could organise this inside a century.

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 Post subject: Re: John McDonnell
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 4:32 pm 
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It's been bandied about for years, the Finns are looking at it very seriously. But I fear you're correct in doubting the British establishment's ability to cope with it - willingly or not - anytime soon. Still, who knows? If it's sold right it might snowball.








Edit: More upbeat last sentence.

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Last edited by The Red Arrow on Mon Jun 06, 2016 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: John McDonnell
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 4:38 pm 
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Up until Osborne's recent cut-off child-benefit was a universal minimum income for those with kids. Popular, cheap to administer and very difficult to defraud. I'd go with the evidence but I doubt those opposing it with a fear of the undeserving poor getting something for nothing will.


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 Post subject: Re: John McDonnell
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:07 pm 
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John McDonell fueling the paranoia of the Corbynistas.

Image

Notice that he names the Guardian and the BBC. Hardliners like McDonell hate Liberals more than Conservatives.

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 Post subject: Re: John McDonnell
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:22 pm 
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He's got a point about them. But where Corby fans go wrong is thinking that all the criticism is down to vested interests.


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 Post subject: Re: John McDonnell
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:32 pm 
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Malcolm Armsteen wrote:
I believe that Gordon Brown and then Gideon looked at this idea. Rather like Universal Credit it makes perfectly good sense if a) you can make it work, and b) if the voters will accept it, given that it removes all possibility of working on the black economy, tax dodging and so forth. Expect a lot of arguments about 'liberty'.

Personally I doubt that HMRC could organise this inside a century.


It costs far too much if you want to give people enough to live on, and still requires specially assessed housing and disability payments. There are still problems with undeclared work.


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 Post subject: Re: John McDonnell
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:39 pm 
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Wouldn't UBI just see the prices of basics and utilities rise to match it? Unless of course you had centralised price-setting...

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